The fact that Kirk established Turning Point in the Valley and was well-received while doing so, says way more about our community than we want it to. Most of the kooks in the AZ Legislature aren't home-grown, they come here from elsewhere to peddle their extreme right-wing views, understanding that we're a fertile pasture for their shameful nonsense. We want to be welcoming to transplants, but there is somehow a message out there that intolerant views not welcomed "back home" will be welcomed in AZ.
Ok this is my favorite comment of the day. Because i can't tell if you're criticizing the length of this piece (fair!) or genuinely asking if this is going to trigger a war (also, sadly, fair).
From the NYT: “Several online social media personalities, some with enormous followings, called almost in unison for “war” to be waged against those on the left they perceive to be their enemies.”
Nice job by providing screenshots of MAGA sycophants venerating him but not the elected officials who expressed sympathy for his family and denounced the violence. You provided a platform for the far right who say this is war and blame the Democrats without any proof whatsoever.
Dream City and their “Pastor” are far right bigots. Full stop. You should have provided the quotes by him and many of his congregants who spew really vile rhetoric.
If only you had Googled the names of the female professionals of color who were doxed and lives nearly destroyed by TP. Several posted on social media how they were targeted by TP but still expressed empathy for his family and called for peace.
Yay for you! Independent journalism is necessary. I’m guessing Hank, Nicole, Curtis, Joe et.al wear their big boy and girl pants when they receive critiques. Although, you could be a journalist using an alias which makes this entire thread hilarious because you clearly are butt hurt about something!
But fwiw to the original point, the normal thoughts and prayers and condemning violence posts are not the ones that have me concerned.
Yes, plenty of good people posted about how Kirk's murder is unacceptable, even if they think he was a piece of shit.
The reason we featured the ones that called for violence and retribution and general escalation is that they scare the shit out of me and should scare you, too. Not to provide a platform for people spewing hate, but to provide awareness of who they are and what they're saying.
I'm reading that other comment as we SHOULDN'T have quoted the Dream City pastor -- I again disagree. Pointing out that people say bigoted shit is not the same as promoting them. It doesn't mean we agree with them. It means we think it's news that they said it.
I know tempers are hot right now, so I appreciate y'all arguing civilly. Fair to criticize us! But also, we knew going into writing this that somebody's gonna be pissed no matter what we write. That's the job.
I'm not always great about responding but i do read the comments and consider them. So keep it coming.
Excellent reporting. Thanks for this insightful overview of Kirk, his organization and the impact of both (and his murder) on American and Arizona politics.
None of this would have happened without Chump. The dots are easy to connect. Watch him cynically ratchet up the ranting disdain for the "radical left". Just like 1/6/21. There isn't any "Radical Left". There are just millions of us who hate Chump. Reap what you sow, Chollie.
BS. The Left like you, have called Trump and his supporters NAZI's and worse which gave your side permission to commit violence. "THEY MUST BE STOPPED!"
This murder is a direct result of tyrannical rants by the the Progressives.
4-0 sport. People agree with me...not you. If you are incapable of at least noticing SOME parallels between the Chump admin and 1930s Germany...you are a fool.
So when politicians openly call for war against an entire group of people and our President does as well, that's still not political violence? It's just...a call to war? The lack of context here that the violence has been happening all across the nation because of Kirk and others deliberately inciting it over and over again out of this feeling of both entitlement and arrogance (that it would never come back on them) is left out of even this deeper dive as is the antisemitism. You could connect him to the deeper white nationalist Christian movement that has been building power for decades (I know, I grew up with Kirk's language there, it's not new), and all the work that has been shared by people who left those cults and have been trying to warn people. There's just so many holes in what feels like an endless need to "both sides" people who wanted encouraged and incited violence as long as it was only for their side.
The accusation of anti-semitism is a straw man and demonstrably false. No prominent conservative or Republican has called for the destruction of Israel. Quite the opposite. Look at the Progressives and you have all manner of "death to Israel" types. Ilhan Omar to start.
I must take issue with this bullet point: “And he opposed affirmative action, calling Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson a ‘diversity hire.’” Kirk’s rank racism toward KBJ has nothing to do with affirmative action. There is no affirmative action program for appointing Supreme Court justices and KBJ is as qualified (or more qualified) as all of her colleagues.
Biden clearly and repeatedly called for a "Black Woman" for the SCOTUS. He never mentioned qualifications, only those checkboxes. That is racist, de facto.
10 years ago I was on a psycho-political high after a largely successful two terms of Barack Obama. America was GREAT back then. Nothing in 2015 prepared me for the chaotic Country we have now.
Check the cost of health care premiums and the degrading of those services and you can thank, as the LA TIMES David Ehrenstein called Obama the "magical negro."
The degradation is occurring right NOW. I just had to go get a prescription for a simple COVID vaccine for the first time in 5 years. Chump & RFK Jr. OWN that.
Hey Hank and Nichole, best reporting yet on Kirk and Arizona...haven't seen anything in depth from Yvonne yet. Keep up the great work, especially the Bolles push. Thank you.
Political assassination is the most radical way to end free speech. Note the imbalance of who actually has gotten attacked of late. Not Bernie Sanders or AOC- (Always On Camera)
"When compared to individuals associated with a right-wing ideology, individuals adhering to a left-wing ideology had 68% lower odds of engaging in violent (vs. nonviolent) radical behavior (b = −1.15, SE = 0.13, odds ratio [OR] = 0.32, P < 0.001). On the other hand, the difference between individuals motivated by Islamist and right-wing causes was not significant (b = 0.05, SE = 0.14, OR = 1.05, P = 0.747). Expressed in terms of predicted probabilities, the probability of left-wing violent attack was 0.33, that of right-wing violent attack was 0.61, and that of Islamist violent attack was 0.62."
Nice try, again. But your "survey" is dated July 18, 2022
Note the actual document says" Moreover, not all prior studies have supported the idea of ideological asymmetry. For instance, one study (17) found no difference between liberals and conservatives in the empathy they felt toward their political opponents. "
Thanks for playing. Try harder next time, Kirk is dead and AOC and Bernie walk the earth.
Violence of any kind is reprehensible and my prayers go out to his family and friends for their loss. First time I heard of Kirk he had a bunch of teenagers, most under 16, in the basement of an old building, sending out Russian propaganda about Hillary Clinton in 2015. That’s where it started. That says it all. He knew how to push buttons, must have been very charismatic. I disagree with almost everything he pushed, preached, but as Voltaire said, “I disapprove of what you say but will fight to the death for the right to say it.” The hypocrisy of Kirk was he could not, would not, do that. Be civil, be kind. It’s hard when you hear hate speech which seems to be much of what Kirk said. We don’t need a war, we must talk and talk and talk.
Why did Turning Point USA target college students? Because we all know the easiest prey on earth is a young mind who does not yet understand money, credit cards, compound interest, or the politics of propaganda. For purveyors of our young, credit card companies target and offer students instant access to money--clouding the repayment and interest agreements they are required to sign (they are now adults, don't you know?), but still don't understand--with opportunities to obtain MONEY. For most, their acceptance of "easy money" traps them into years of paying high interest rate loans before they figure it out, or before their parents must bail them out! It was not kindness that drew them in; it was companies who are in the business of propaganda, profit and greed.
So educational institutions have allowed purveyors of young people on college campuses who toss out bling, hats, flags, stickers and free food, for the opportunity to turn their young, blank minds to political mush through organizations like Turning Point USA. Because propaganda is so successful, it was easy to recruit young people to GOP causes. Why our universities allowed these activities is beyond me. It is easy to agitate young minds (and hormones) with righteousness and hate for democratic movements they could not yet understand. These students were "fresh meat" for seasoned politicians! So spare me the lectures on the phenomena of "leaders" in this movement, as they are basically an arm of the GOP attack on our democracy and in no way are they the heroes they claim themselves to be. They recruit young minds who are not prepared for the onslaught of propaganda they are ill-prepared to dissect and reject. These purveyors are basically brain-washing young adult minds to stop their critical thinking "journeys" at their universities, in favor of the closed mind thinking offered to them by charlatans.
And, another thing! The lowering of the United States flag to half mast (which was not offered when a Democrat Representative from MN was slaughtered) and the transporting of Mr. Kirk's body on Airforce 2 was a direct "hit" on our democracy. Taxpayers being forced to absorb the cost of one man's decision? Isn't that why we have and pay our Congress? Trump breaks rules at every turn and both of these events show extreme disrespect for the decorum, rules and respect we must retain to hold our society together. It was a direct "in our face" snub to all citizens by POTUS.
Kirk was not deeply Christian. He was a Christian nationalist.
Inside baseball
The fact that Kirk established Turning Point in the Valley and was well-received while doing so, says way more about our community than we want it to. Most of the kooks in the AZ Legislature aren't home-grown, they come here from elsewhere to peddle their extreme right-wing views, understanding that we're a fertile pasture for their shameful nonsense. We want to be welcoming to transplants, but there is somehow a message out there that intolerant views not welcomed "back home" will be welcomed in AZ.
Is this the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand?
Ok this is my favorite comment of the day. Because i can't tell if you're criticizing the length of this piece (fair!) or genuinely asking if this is going to trigger a war (also, sadly, fair).
Serious question it’s not quite Kristallnacht but I feel like it’s coming.
Sorry I mixed my war metaphors but these two events seems horribly relevant.
From the NYT: “Several online social media personalities, some with enormous followings, called almost in unison for “war” to be waged against those on the left they perceive to be their enemies.”
It’s not your piece. It’s thorough and complete. You’re not the problem here.
There’s so much imbalance in this reporting 😕
Nice job by providing screenshots of MAGA sycophants venerating him but not the elected officials who expressed sympathy for his family and denounced the violence. You provided a platform for the far right who say this is war and blame the Democrats without any proof whatsoever.
Dream City and their “Pastor” are far right bigots. Full stop. You should have provided the quotes by him and many of his congregants who spew really vile rhetoric.
If only you had Googled the names of the female professionals of color who were doxed and lives nearly destroyed by TP. Several posted on social media how they were targeted by TP but still expressed empathy for his family and called for peace.
Badly done, Arizona Agenda.
Hey Annette...there's only so much space for a complex story like this. There's always tomorrow.
“Tomorrow” is Monday and the news cycle will have moved on. An article like this requires a point/counterpoint. I said what I said.
Time does march on...you can always unsubscribe,
No it doesn't...
Is this my former Councilman, Dave Siebert? Interesting take. Care to expound?
It is not though as a Republic photographer I used to get emails for him fairly often. Do you believe every story needs a 50/50 perspective on things?
Screen shots of far right unelected or former elected but not of the moderates or left denouncing the political violence? YES.
Yay for you! Independent journalism is necessary. I’m guessing Hank, Nicole, Curtis, Joe et.al wear their big boy and girl pants when they receive critiques. Although, you could be a journalist using an alias which makes this entire thread hilarious because you clearly are butt hurt about something!
Thanks, Algo and Annette,
Hate to see y'all arguing over lil ole us.
But fwiw to the original point, the normal thoughts and prayers and condemning violence posts are not the ones that have me concerned.
Yes, plenty of good people posted about how Kirk's murder is unacceptable, even if they think he was a piece of shit.
The reason we featured the ones that called for violence and retribution and general escalation is that they scare the shit out of me and should scare you, too. Not to provide a platform for people spewing hate, but to provide awareness of who they are and what they're saying.
I'm reading that other comment as we SHOULDN'T have quoted the Dream City pastor -- I again disagree. Pointing out that people say bigoted shit is not the same as promoting them. It doesn't mean we agree with them. It means we think it's news that they said it.
I know tempers are hot right now, so I appreciate y'all arguing civilly. Fair to criticize us! But also, we knew going into writing this that somebody's gonna be pissed no matter what we write. That's the job.
I'm not always great about responding but i do read the comments and consider them. So keep it coming.
Thanks!
Respectfully, disagree on so many levels. I respect your views. Thank you.
Excellent reporting. Thanks for this insightful overview of Kirk, his organization and the impact of both (and his murder) on American and Arizona politics.
None of this would have happened without Chump. The dots are easy to connect. Watch him cynically ratchet up the ranting disdain for the "radical left". Just like 1/6/21. There isn't any "Radical Left". There are just millions of us who hate Chump. Reap what you sow, Chollie.
BS. The Left like you, have called Trump and his supporters NAZI's and worse which gave your side permission to commit violence. "THEY MUST BE STOPPED!"
This murder is a direct result of tyrannical rants by the the Progressives.
That’s going too far. Shame on you.
4-0 sport. People agree with me...not you. If you are incapable of at least noticing SOME parallels between the Chump admin and 1930s Germany...you are a fool.
So when politicians openly call for war against an entire group of people and our President does as well, that's still not political violence? It's just...a call to war? The lack of context here that the violence has been happening all across the nation because of Kirk and others deliberately inciting it over and over again out of this feeling of both entitlement and arrogance (that it would never come back on them) is left out of even this deeper dive as is the antisemitism. You could connect him to the deeper white nationalist Christian movement that has been building power for decades (I know, I grew up with Kirk's language there, it's not new), and all the work that has been shared by people who left those cults and have been trying to warn people. There's just so many holes in what feels like an endless need to "both sides" people who wanted encouraged and incited violence as long as it was only for their side.
The accusation of anti-semitism is a straw man and demonstrably false. No prominent conservative or Republican has called for the destruction of Israel. Quite the opposite. Look at the Progressives and you have all manner of "death to Israel" types. Ilhan Omar to start.
You are incapable of expressing yourself in a coherent fashion. This is Fantasy Football to you. It's actually a little more important.
I must take issue with this bullet point: “And he opposed affirmative action, calling Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson a ‘diversity hire.’” Kirk’s rank racism toward KBJ has nothing to do with affirmative action. There is no affirmative action program for appointing Supreme Court justices and KBJ is as qualified (or more qualified) as all of her colleagues.
Biden clearly and repeatedly called for a "Black Woman" for the SCOTUS. He never mentioned qualifications, only those checkboxes. That is racist, de facto.
Ok yeah, poor phrasing connecting those two things directly. A period / new bullet would do a lot better there.
I detest gun violence. I also wish Kirk had spent his life doing good instead of spreading hate.
10 years ago I was on a psycho-political high after a largely successful two terms of Barack Obama. America was GREAT back then. Nothing in 2015 prepared me for the chaotic Country we have now.
Check the cost of health care premiums and the degrading of those services and you can thank, as the LA TIMES David Ehrenstein called Obama the "magical negro."
Again ugly
Was not my quote-a lefty writer called BO that.
The degradation is occurring right NOW. I just had to go get a prescription for a simple COVID vaccine for the first time in 5 years. Chump & RFK Jr. OWN that.
Hey Hank and Nichole, best reporting yet on Kirk and Arizona...haven't seen anything in depth from Yvonne yet. Keep up the great work, especially the Bolles push. Thank you.
Political assassination is the most radical way to end free speech. Note the imbalance of who actually has gotten attacked of late. Not Bernie Sanders or AOC- (Always On Camera)
We don’t even know who this kid is. If you want a war keep it up.
The war is already upon us, some fail to see it.
Explain it to me, please.
I think you need to get out of your bubble more.
"When compared to individuals associated with a right-wing ideology, individuals adhering to a left-wing ideology had 68% lower odds of engaging in violent (vs. nonviolent) radical behavior (b = −1.15, SE = 0.13, odds ratio [OR] = 0.32, P < 0.001). On the other hand, the difference between individuals motivated by Islamist and right-wing causes was not significant (b = 0.05, SE = 0.14, OR = 1.05, P = 0.747). Expressed in terms of predicted probabilities, the probability of left-wing violent attack was 0.33, that of right-wing violent attack was 0.61, and that of Islamist violent attack was 0.62."
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2122593119#sec-4
Just because you don't read about it or care about it, doesn't mean there hasn't been more violent acts by right-wingers.
Nice try, again. But your "survey" is dated July 18, 2022
Note the actual document says" Moreover, not all prior studies have supported the idea of ideological asymmetry. For instance, one study (17) found no difference between liberals and conservatives in the empathy they felt toward their political opponents. "
Thanks for playing. Try harder next time, Kirk is dead and AOC and Bernie walk the earth.
Violence of any kind is reprehensible and my prayers go out to his family and friends for their loss. First time I heard of Kirk he had a bunch of teenagers, most under 16, in the basement of an old building, sending out Russian propaganda about Hillary Clinton in 2015. That’s where it started. That says it all. He knew how to push buttons, must have been very charismatic. I disagree with almost everything he pushed, preached, but as Voltaire said, “I disapprove of what you say but will fight to the death for the right to say it.” The hypocrisy of Kirk was he could not, would not, do that. Be civil, be kind. It’s hard when you hear hate speech which seems to be much of what Kirk said. We don’t need a war, we must talk and talk and talk.
Thank you for the challenge you took on to produce this issue. Too many journalists have carefully overlooked the incendiary statements Kirk has made.
Why did Turning Point USA target college students? Because we all know the easiest prey on earth is a young mind who does not yet understand money, credit cards, compound interest, or the politics of propaganda. For purveyors of our young, credit card companies target and offer students instant access to money--clouding the repayment and interest agreements they are required to sign (they are now adults, don't you know?), but still don't understand--with opportunities to obtain MONEY. For most, their acceptance of "easy money" traps them into years of paying high interest rate loans before they figure it out, or before their parents must bail them out! It was not kindness that drew them in; it was companies who are in the business of propaganda, profit and greed.
So educational institutions have allowed purveyors of young people on college campuses who toss out bling, hats, flags, stickers and free food, for the opportunity to turn their young, blank minds to political mush through organizations like Turning Point USA. Because propaganda is so successful, it was easy to recruit young people to GOP causes. Why our universities allowed these activities is beyond me. It is easy to agitate young minds (and hormones) with righteousness and hate for democratic movements they could not yet understand. These students were "fresh meat" for seasoned politicians! So spare me the lectures on the phenomena of "leaders" in this movement, as they are basically an arm of the GOP attack on our democracy and in no way are they the heroes they claim themselves to be. They recruit young minds who are not prepared for the onslaught of propaganda they are ill-prepared to dissect and reject. These purveyors are basically brain-washing young adult minds to stop their critical thinking "journeys" at their universities, in favor of the closed mind thinking offered to them by charlatans.
And, another thing! The lowering of the United States flag to half mast (which was not offered when a Democrat Representative from MN was slaughtered) and the transporting of Mr. Kirk's body on Airforce 2 was a direct "hit" on our democracy. Taxpayers being forced to absorb the cost of one man's decision? Isn't that why we have and pay our Congress? Trump breaks rules at every turn and both of these events show extreme disrespect for the decorum, rules and respect we must retain to hold our society together. It was a direct "in our face" snub to all citizens by POTUS.
Well said. Thank you.